QUOTING FOR THE SAKE OF QUOTING
Although we have patiently engaged with Sandhu
and attempted to show him the fallacy of quoting references for the sake
of quoting, he continues to persist in employing this erroneous
methodology. Hence, we have published the following to demonstrate how
impossible it is to debate such opponents.
We hope that it will serve as an example of what an argument should not
look like in order to engage in meaningful dialogues that lead towards
understanding and insha'Allaah (God-Willing) God's Truth.
Comments from our article 'Reincarnation-Transmigration'
- italics
Sandhu's response -
bold
Our reply -
blue
Muslim Bhai.. Sat Sri
Akaal,
Hello
and Allaah yadeeka
As Usual you seems to
be beating around the same bush asking the same question over and over
Again.
What
question Sandhu is referring to here we have no idea. Although this
style of approach has been a consistent theme in many of Sandhu's
disjointed replies we have received; that is, his inability to correctly
use text in support of his arguments. Sandhu believes that by simply
citing/quoting text for the sake of quoting, regardless of whether the
citations are relevant to a given argument, is unimportant. Besides our
repeated requests in previous exchanges, Sandhu has opted to ignore the
fallacy of quoting for the sake of quoting and forwarding irrelevant
reasons for drawing a conclusion. This will be demonstrated as you read
on.
"How is it possible to
justify the suffering of a person as a deserved
punishment for previous sins when one has absolutely no recollection of
the transgressions committed in a past life?"
Gurbani tells us
....Phai Prapat manokh dehorea, Gobind milan ki eho teri bharia.... (
for further reading i am sure you know where to find the complete shabad)
...and further the whole of Anand Sahib Bani explains to us humans how
to value our mortal life.
We are
not asking the value of a mortal life; thus, this is a straw man
argument. The aforementioned question is asking how one can justify
punishment for unknown crimes, although the value of life will be
affected adversely if justice entails punishing people for actions they
have no knowledge of.
Sikhism surenders
everything to God's Hukam. Hukamah ander sabh Ko Bahar Hukam nah Koi.....
Nanak Hukmeh jeh Bujeh tah haumeh ..... Japji.
Are we
to infer that a Sikh will surrender to a so-called hukam of God
even if it is proven to be unjust and cannot be proven otherwise?
If one does not
want to bother to understand the Hukam...why should anyone deserve life
in the first place. Heereh Jaiseh janam hai kaudhi badleh jai... Satguru
ji has given warning in Anand Sahib.... aisah kaam muleh naa kijeh jit
ant pachotaiyeh...
Is
Sandhu implying here that we choose not to bother to understand the
hukam? If he is then this is an ad hominem fallacy.
The
following is what we mean by "quoting for the sake of quoting".
During a debate, it is important to know that one not only quote well
selected citations that are relevant to the point being made, but also
explain the point one is making that leads into the quote, i.e.
introduce the relevance of the quote and how it supports the argument;
then, to explicitly show how the quote makes the point one is attempting
to make. Simply asserting that a citation has supported an argument
without explaining how doesn't prove it has. Why are we suggesting these
pointers to Sandhu and others? Because quoting for the sake of quoting
indicates the following: Inability to construct meaningful arguments;
laziness; unwillingness to critically think about what one is writing.
"Renouncing
selfishness and conceit, he remains always on the side of the Guru; he
does not know anyone except the Guru. Says Nanak, listen, O Saints: such
a Sikh turns toward the Guru with sincere faith, and becomes sunmukh. ||
21 || One who turns away from the Guru, and becomes baymukh - without
the True Guru, he shall not find liberation. He shall not find
liberation anywhere else either; go and ask the wise ones about this. He
shall wander through countless incarnations; without the True Guru, he
shall not find liberation. But liberation is attained, when one is
attached to the feet of the True Guru, chanting the Word of the Shabad.
Says Nanak, contemplate this and see, that without the True Guru, there
is no liberation. || 22 ||"
Come, O beloved Sikhs
of the True Guru, and sing the True Word of His Bani. Sing the Guru's
Bani, the supreme Word of Words. Those who are blessed by the Lord's
Glance of Grace - their hearts are imbued with this Bani. Drink in this
Ambrosial Nectar, and remain in the Lord's Love forever; meditate on the
Lord, the Sustainer of the world. Says Nanak, sing this True Bani
forever. || 23 ||
The Word of the Guru's
Shabad is a jewel, studded with diamonds. The mind which is attached to
this jewel, merges into the Shabad. One whose mind is attuned to the
Shabad, enshrines love for the True Lord. He Himself is the diamond, and
He Himself is the jewel; one who is blessed, understands its value. Says
Nanak, the Shabad is a jewel, studded with diamonds. || 25
"O
my body, the Lord infused His Light into you, and then you came into the
world. The Lord infused His Light into you, and then you came into the
world. The Lord Himself is your mother, and He Himself
is your father; He created the created beings, and revealed the world to
them. By Guru's Grace, some understand, and then it's a show; it seems
like just a show. Says Nanak, He laid the foundation of the Universe,
and infused His Light, and then you came into the world. || 33 || My
mind has become joyful, hearing of God's coming. Sing the songs of joy
to welcome the Lord, O my companions; my household has become the Lord's
Mansion. Sing continually the songs of joy to welcome the Lord, O my
companions, and sorrow and suffering will not afflict you. Blessed is
that day, when I am attached to the Guru's feet and meditate on my
Husband Lord. I have come to know the unstruck sound current and the
Word of the Guru's Shabad; I enjoy the sublime essence of the Lord, the
Lord's Name. "
Says Nanak, God
Himself has met me; He is the Doer, the Cause of causes. || 34 ||
O my body, why have you come
into this world?
What actions have you committed? And
what actions have you committed, O my body, since you came into this
world? The Lord who formed your form - you have
not enshrined that
Lord in your mind. By Guru's Grace, the Lord abides within the mind, and
one's pre-ordained destiny is fulfilled. Says Nanak, this body is
adorned and honored, when one's consciousness is focused on the True
Guru. || 35 || O my eyes, the Lord has infused His Light into you; do
not look upon any other than the Lord. Do not look upon any other than
the Lord; the Lord alone is worthy of beholding. This whole world which
you see is the image of the Lord; only the image of the Lord is seen. By
Guru's Grace, I understand, and I see only the One Lord; there is no one
except the Lord. Says Nanak, these eyes were blind; but meeting the True
Guru, they became all-seeing. || 36 ||
How do
these above quotes answer the aforementioned question and support
Sandhu's argument?
Like i said muslim
bhai, i can just quote gurbani to answer your bulshit and your narrow
mind why not instead of wasting your time go research your own religion
and do your fellow muslims a big favour. Look around you your Islamic
nation is on fire. Your brothers are killing one another.
Unfortunately we have had to endure a lot of foul language from this
Sikh who boasts of being a defender of his SatGuru. However, we know
that he is an exception and that most Sikhs are cordial, polite and well
behaved.
The points he raises are, of course, besides the point and irrelevant; but,
what we will say as a corollary that the problem of Muslims killing
Muslims does not solve the problem we raised in the article:
The
Absurdities of Reincarnation-Transmigration. They still exist and by
Allaah we have not received a single meaningful reply from any Sikh to
the said article. This indicates to us that the many Sikhs, who
have visited our site and emailed us, either cannot rebut our points or do not
care enough to defend that which they claim to love the most - their
religion and their SatGuru.
I do not have to
write anything on my own Gurbani is enough.
And this
brings us back full circle - the main problem with Sandhu's perceived
rebuttals.
(We
have clipped out a portion of ranting and raving and foul language from
this man.)
Make sure you paste
this shabads in your bulshit essay.
Salam sat Sri Akaal
Muslim Bhai.
Wa
salaam wa Allaah yadeeka.
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